Here are my comments and those responding to me on Rocky's Post (before being censored) called THE LETTER THE PLAGIARIST WON'T PRINT
-------------------------------------------------
Half Blind said...
I agree with the NST response. She needs to specify which part of the NST article was 'prejudiced and biased'. I personally didn't see any.All those who are defending Mahathir cannot deny that Mahathir was the closest thing Malaysia had to a dictator, and his regime was the most corrupt. People are welcome to accuse Abdullah's administration as being incompetent and dull etc (which I agree), but please also don't forget that Mahathir deserves to be the first to go to hell.
10:59 AM
Half Blind said...
Rocky,
Judging from your relentless, continuous attack on the NST clowns over the months (some makes a lot of sense but mostly just trivial and petty), I can only conclude that you have something personal against the NST clowns.While I think it's fine to attack those clowns, please detach yourself and be aware that you might have crossed the line to the boundary of getting too personal, too biased, to the absurd extent of 'any enemy of my enemy is my friend'.Go after NST if that's your ultimate personal agenda but don't inadvertently do the Devil's (Mahathir's) bidding. That's very sad.
11:07 AM
2020vision said...
sorry half-blind..
i dont agree with the NST response. Brendan's piece was prejudiced and biased. as plain as that.for 22 years, malaysia was ruled by a dictator! some dictator he was... people whacking him left right and center. the press whacked him too. did you know that? of course, there are some things he did that cannot be defended. and those things cannot be repeated. but he didnt have his son-in-law calling CEOs and MBs up to tell them what to do. like some commentors said -- if there were things that were wrong (under Dr M), they are still wrong now.corrupt government then? same government now.
11:16 AM
bacardi said...
this is what i like about your blog, bro.you let comments whacking you through. some say you are not balanced, that you have lost it. that's his/her view.you exposing brendan's copycat/plagiarised work in your blog makes you "not balanced", not professional. ok. whatever.see, they know you. but you do not know them. so they can say whatever they like about you and you have no idea in hell who they are.and you attacking the NST clowns? they're clowns ruining NST. why shouldnt you attack them! Sheeezzz.are you being too personal? maybe, huh? maybe not. but that is for you to answer.
11:41 AM
Anonymous said...
Hey Half Blind,You must be really half blind!
11:46 AM
Anonymous said... [Juslo's note: Also me]
The Man Who Sold The World,
"you have proven you're still a balanced journalist, one who carries both sides of the story and let us decide who to chose or believe."
How is the very suggestive title of this Post (which shows grave disapproval towards ""THE PLAGIARIST") 'balanced'??
And you went on to say, "This is how journalism is suppose to be."
ARE YOU SURE??? Do you mind telling me what kind of 'journalism' school you went to?
Rocky, I think you've lost it, no longer 'balanced', if you ask me.
11:11 AM
Half Blind said...
2020vision,
"people whacking him left right and center. the press whacked him too. did you know that?"
Sorry, you mean, the MALAYSIAN press? DURING those 22 years?Ever heard of Ops Lalang, etc? Maybe you just came back from Mars recently. Welcome back.
"of course, there are some things he did that cannot be defended. and those things cannot be repeated."
I think you just admitted that the 'Datin' was wrong to criticise the NST, and that the NST was right in their article.
"but he didnt have his son-in-law calling CEOs and MBs up to tell them what to do."
Yeah, that's WRONG and CORRUPT, but our Emperor Mahathir did MUCH WORSE AND MORE CRUEL things than that - not only he TOLD people what to do, but after telling them, if they REFUSE to obey, he would SACK them by INVENTING FALSE accusations (Salleh Abas, Anwar Ibrahim, to name but a few) and turn Malaysia into the rule of ONE man.
"corrupt government then? same government now."
Sure, but the difference between Abdullah (so far) and Mahathir is not just a difference of degree, it's a TOTAL difference in KIND/CATEGORY. If you can't see that, I suggest you get your moral compass fixed.
11:47 AM
Anonymous said...
half blind,
who could blame you for your opinion... by being half-sighted will of course blur your vision.Go get a white cane and find your way to heaven.
11:56 AM
Ingin tahu said...
Anonymous (11:11 AM) said...How is the very suggestive title of this Post (which shows grave disapproval towards ""THE PLAGIARIST") 'balanced'??And you went on to say, "This is how journalism is suppose to be." ARE YOU SURE??? Do you mind telling me what kind of 'journalism' school you went to?===================================
Hey Anonymous (11:11 AM),
Maybe you should get a copy of "The YOU in Journalism" a handbook for journalist written by former NST Editor-in-chief P.C. Shivadas & Ex NST journalist Krishnamoorthy.
Jeff ooi from: http://www.jeffooi.com said
there is an appendix on Ethics of Journalism on Page 163, with the lone-soul title: DON'T. Among other things, it says DONT:
• Lie in print or on the air.
• Suppress or omit opinion with which one disagrees.
• Show favouritism or personal bias in one's reporting or writing.
• Plagiarise someone else's words or ideas (journalists can use the words with attribution.)
• Use one's position for personal gain. (e.g. accepting gifts from sourses etc.)
• Do anything that may be construed as a "conflict of interest" (i.e. write politicalspeeches for the candidate they are covering in an election etc.)
I think bro rocky has been taught all that and has put them into practice.Cant say much abt Kalimullah or Brenden.Cheers!
12:11 PM
Anonymous said...
Half blind,
I was better off with Dr Mahathir as a dictator, if he was! I'm not a deviated religious extremist, ultra-racist or overzealous politician taik kucing.
I'm just an ordinary Malaysian, benefitted by his positive dictatorship, of which I'm fully indebted.
So what?
Show me why he should be in hell, not heaven!
Show me also why you, yourself should not be in hell.
Hantu Gigi Jarang
12:31 PM
thankgodiquitbh said...
hey,
you try building and devoting yourself to a newspaper and then see them clowns kill it with so much thought, then you come back and tell rocky or other journalists who have left that they are being personal and they should stop.
NST is personal to many of us and being against the people who are dismantling its glory one page by one page is their rights and my pleasure.
this fight is personal and being personal is the only way you can win a fight. otherwise nothing is not worth fighting for.
12:41 PM
Anonymous said...
I have known Kamrul Idris for a long time (even tho I haven't seen him for a while too) and I believe everyone deserves a second chance in life. But it's very convenient to make someone so beholdened to you your fall-guy, get him to write silly responses to intelligent readers and not take the flak that comes back.The Datin who wrote the letter deserves more respect, as does all readers regardless of their views. This is not the way to show it. No wonder people don't want to read the NST anymore.
12:51 PM
The Man Who Sold The World said...
Rocky
Just to note, in my earlier posting I pointed out "SOME claim you're a sore loser". That some does not include me, otherwise I wouldn't be here in the first place.
Secondly, to the earlier posting by anonymous, I know whom my mentors were and I still stand to believe this posting is balanced, ie both sides of the story were published, unlike our newspapers whom either have half past six reporters or good reporters who get their stories heavily edited making them look like fools.
p/s: If you don't like what you're reading, just leave the blog. Basic common sense.
1:05 PM
Anonymous said...
half-blind, if the many adament fanatics here had half the sight you have, they'd see the point you're trying to make.
1:11 PM
wielmaja said...
I must admit Datin's letter did sound a bit pro TDM but hey, everybody is entitled to his/her own view... that's what press freedom is all about. But for NST to deny her the chance to express her view, that, for me was 25 million nails into the coffin for press freedom.
1:17 PM
----------------------------------------------------
I also posted some comments on Rocky's Post one day earlier, called
Tuesday, October 31, 2006
BRENDAN MEETS ALBOM
http://rockybru.blogspot.com/2006/10/brendan-meets-albom.html
Half Blind said...
Plagiarism is to call someone else's work your own. Eg. I stole the research of Dr Lim Teck Ghee/ASLI on Bumi equity %, but I call it my own research. THAT'S PLAGIARISM.
But to copy or imitate someone else's style is NOT plagarism. If that were plagiarism, then ALL writers of literature today are, because many have copied or imitated the style and expressions of, or otherwise been heavily influenced by, the great literary giants like Dickens, Austen, Twain, Woolf, Faulkner, Hemingway...
I thought literary masters are recognised on the basis of the writers they have managed to INFLUENCE??
Your (and Screenshot's) definition of Plagiarism could well destroy the literary culture as a whole. Watch out - don't let your personal vengence cloud your mind.
11:24 AM
Half Blind said...
Some have argued that it's not plagiarism as such to 'mimick' or copy other writers' style so long as credit is given. That's nonsense.
If that was the rule, every sentence/paragraph written would have to be followed by "ala Dickens (in Bleak House, page 54, Penguin 1985 edition); Austen (in Pride and Prejudice, page 24, Penguin 1998 edition 2005 reprint); Woolf (To the Lighthouse, page 22...); Faulkner (The Sound and the Fury, page 69...); Hemingway (Old Man and the Sea, page 116...)
That's absurd, can't you guys see?
When they say that 'ideas' need to be acknowledged and credited, they mean SPECIFIC AND PARTICULAR theories and data/research such as Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Giving credit or acknowledgement to literary STYLES is NOT the same - you have the literary critics to do that, who analyse works of fiction and evaluate whether certain styles have been 'well applied/borrowed'.
In the literary world, it's VERY common to borrow the styles of other writers (without giving a lost list of 'source') - they do it ALL THE TIME!!
So, please don't spill your ink without familiarising yourself with what is meant by 'plagiarism' in the first place.
To talk so loud without actually knowing what you are talking about is only to make a fool out of yourself and showing just how shallow the intellectual standard of Malaysian journalists are.
Loud, Empty Can - that applies to both Rocky (I'm sorry, bro) and Screenshot's Jeff Ooi (who has a nasty habit of CENSORING views which are critical of HIM PERSONALLY). Wise up, for the sake of your readers' maturity and for Malaysia's sake.
And to all of the commentators on this blog and Jeff Ooi's, who can't wait to follow the crowd to condemn 'plagiarism', see what the crowd mentality has done to you? Grow up.
p.s: Feel free to mock and ridicule the NST clowns/spin-doctors, because I'm no fan of them either. They have a very long way to go before they deserve to call themselves 'journalists'. But plagiariser? NAH.
12:07 PM
Half Blind said...
Typo. I mean, "(without giving a LONG list of 'source')"
12:10 PM
----------------------------------------------------------
Then, Rocky couldn't take it anymore.
rockybru said...
Dear Half Blind,
I have decided against posting the three latest comments you left for this blog because they provide no new perspective compared with the three that you had sent earlier, which I have already published.
From all six comments that you sent me, you have made it very clear that, no matter what and how, you do not - will not - consider Brendan P's act as plagiarism.
And since you have made this very clear, I see no need to allow you to come out in defence of your position (and Brendan P's sin) each time a poster responds to your comments and tries to make you understand why Brendan did commit plagiarism.
If I allow you to do that, there'll be no end to it.
I hope you will not accuse me of censoring you, like the NST censored the Datin Anonymous, but I do need to maintain a certain minimum standard for this blog.
Thank you for taking part.
8:01 PM
-----------------------------------------------
Questions:
When they say "Don't Plagiarise someone else's words or ideas (journalists can use the words with attribution.)", what does it mean?
Let me put my ideas in a few questions, whcih are not mutually exclusive of each other.
1, Does 'Plagiarise' punish someone for imitating, copying and mimicking of a LITERARY STYLE without giving credit to the 'source' of that style (especially those who do it out of admiration for that style)?
2, In other words, does a writer have to make clear to people where he got the style for every part of his writing?
3, Does the phrase 'words or ideas' above include LITERARY STYLES?
DISCLAIMER: I have ABSOLUTELY NO intention of defending the clowns of NST, but only doing this because I think Rocky's Bru and Screeshots have misled their readers in the meaning of 'Plagiarism'.
If our conclusion is that the NST article is really guilty of 'plagiarism' (not as these 2 blogs understood it, but how the meaning is generally understood by the rest of the world), so be it. At least, we would have had a deeper understanding of the concept. Thanks.
GUARANTEE: NO CENSORSHIP, even of junk or spam. Thanks.
-------------------------------------------------
Half Blind said...
I agree with the NST response. She needs to specify which part of the NST article was 'prejudiced and biased'. I personally didn't see any.All those who are defending Mahathir cannot deny that Mahathir was the closest thing Malaysia had to a dictator, and his regime was the most corrupt. People are welcome to accuse Abdullah's administration as being incompetent and dull etc (which I agree), but please also don't forget that Mahathir deserves to be the first to go to hell.
10:59 AM
Half Blind said...
Rocky,
Judging from your relentless, continuous attack on the NST clowns over the months (some makes a lot of sense but mostly just trivial and petty), I can only conclude that you have something personal against the NST clowns.While I think it's fine to attack those clowns, please detach yourself and be aware that you might have crossed the line to the boundary of getting too personal, too biased, to the absurd extent of 'any enemy of my enemy is my friend'.Go after NST if that's your ultimate personal agenda but don't inadvertently do the Devil's (Mahathir's) bidding. That's very sad.
11:07 AM
2020vision said...
sorry half-blind..
i dont agree with the NST response. Brendan's piece was prejudiced and biased. as plain as that.for 22 years, malaysia was ruled by a dictator! some dictator he was... people whacking him left right and center. the press whacked him too. did you know that? of course, there are some things he did that cannot be defended. and those things cannot be repeated. but he didnt have his son-in-law calling CEOs and MBs up to tell them what to do. like some commentors said -- if there were things that were wrong (under Dr M), they are still wrong now.corrupt government then? same government now.
11:16 AM
bacardi said...
this is what i like about your blog, bro.you let comments whacking you through. some say you are not balanced, that you have lost it. that's his/her view.you exposing brendan's copycat/plagiarised work in your blog makes you "not balanced", not professional. ok. whatever.see, they know you. but you do not know them. so they can say whatever they like about you and you have no idea in hell who they are.and you attacking the NST clowns? they're clowns ruining NST. why shouldnt you attack them! Sheeezzz.are you being too personal? maybe, huh? maybe not. but that is for you to answer.
11:41 AM
Anonymous said...
Hey Half Blind,You must be really half blind!
11:46 AM
Anonymous said... [Juslo's note: Also me]
The Man Who Sold The World,
"you have proven you're still a balanced journalist, one who carries both sides of the story and let us decide who to chose or believe."
How is the very suggestive title of this Post (which shows grave disapproval towards ""THE PLAGIARIST") 'balanced'??
And you went on to say, "This is how journalism is suppose to be."
ARE YOU SURE??? Do you mind telling me what kind of 'journalism' school you went to?
Rocky, I think you've lost it, no longer 'balanced', if you ask me.
11:11 AM
Half Blind said...
2020vision,
"people whacking him left right and center. the press whacked him too. did you know that?"
Sorry, you mean, the MALAYSIAN press? DURING those 22 years?Ever heard of Ops Lalang, etc? Maybe you just came back from Mars recently. Welcome back.
"of course, there are some things he did that cannot be defended. and those things cannot be repeated."
I think you just admitted that the 'Datin' was wrong to criticise the NST, and that the NST was right in their article.
"but he didnt have his son-in-law calling CEOs and MBs up to tell them what to do."
Yeah, that's WRONG and CORRUPT, but our Emperor Mahathir did MUCH WORSE AND MORE CRUEL things than that - not only he TOLD people what to do, but after telling them, if they REFUSE to obey, he would SACK them by INVENTING FALSE accusations (Salleh Abas, Anwar Ibrahim, to name but a few) and turn Malaysia into the rule of ONE man.
"corrupt government then? same government now."
Sure, but the difference between Abdullah (so far) and Mahathir is not just a difference of degree, it's a TOTAL difference in KIND/CATEGORY. If you can't see that, I suggest you get your moral compass fixed.
11:47 AM
Anonymous said...
half blind,
who could blame you for your opinion... by being half-sighted will of course blur your vision.Go get a white cane and find your way to heaven.
11:56 AM
Ingin tahu said...
Anonymous (11:11 AM) said...How is the very suggestive title of this Post (which shows grave disapproval towards ""THE PLAGIARIST") 'balanced'??And you went on to say, "This is how journalism is suppose to be." ARE YOU SURE??? Do you mind telling me what kind of 'journalism' school you went to?===================================
Hey Anonymous (11:11 AM),
Maybe you should get a copy of "The YOU in Journalism" a handbook for journalist written by former NST Editor-in-chief P.C. Shivadas & Ex NST journalist Krishnamoorthy.
Jeff ooi from: http://www.jeffooi.com said
there is an appendix on Ethics of Journalism on Page 163, with the lone-soul title: DON'T. Among other things, it says DONT:
• Lie in print or on the air.
• Suppress or omit opinion with which one disagrees.
• Show favouritism or personal bias in one's reporting or writing.
• Plagiarise someone else's words or ideas (journalists can use the words with attribution.)
• Use one's position for personal gain. (e.g. accepting gifts from sourses etc.)
• Do anything that may be construed as a "conflict of interest" (i.e. write politicalspeeches for the candidate they are covering in an election etc.)
I think bro rocky has been taught all that and has put them into practice.Cant say much abt Kalimullah or Brenden.Cheers!
12:11 PM
Anonymous said...
Half blind,
I was better off with Dr Mahathir as a dictator, if he was! I'm not a deviated religious extremist, ultra-racist or overzealous politician taik kucing.
I'm just an ordinary Malaysian, benefitted by his positive dictatorship, of which I'm fully indebted.
So what?
Show me why he should be in hell, not heaven!
Show me also why you, yourself should not be in hell.
Hantu Gigi Jarang
12:31 PM
thankgodiquitbh said...
hey,
you try building and devoting yourself to a newspaper and then see them clowns kill it with so much thought, then you come back and tell rocky or other journalists who have left that they are being personal and they should stop.
NST is personal to many of us and being against the people who are dismantling its glory one page by one page is their rights and my pleasure.
this fight is personal and being personal is the only way you can win a fight. otherwise nothing is not worth fighting for.
12:41 PM
Anonymous said...
I have known Kamrul Idris for a long time (even tho I haven't seen him for a while too) and I believe everyone deserves a second chance in life. But it's very convenient to make someone so beholdened to you your fall-guy, get him to write silly responses to intelligent readers and not take the flak that comes back.The Datin who wrote the letter deserves more respect, as does all readers regardless of their views. This is not the way to show it. No wonder people don't want to read the NST anymore.
12:51 PM
The Man Who Sold The World said...
Rocky
Just to note, in my earlier posting I pointed out "SOME claim you're a sore loser". That some does not include me, otherwise I wouldn't be here in the first place.
Secondly, to the earlier posting by anonymous, I know whom my mentors were and I still stand to believe this posting is balanced, ie both sides of the story were published, unlike our newspapers whom either have half past six reporters or good reporters who get their stories heavily edited making them look like fools.
p/s: If you don't like what you're reading, just leave the blog. Basic common sense.
1:05 PM
Anonymous said...
half-blind, if the many adament fanatics here had half the sight you have, they'd see the point you're trying to make.
1:11 PM
wielmaja said...
I must admit Datin's letter did sound a bit pro TDM but hey, everybody is entitled to his/her own view... that's what press freedom is all about. But for NST to deny her the chance to express her view, that, for me was 25 million nails into the coffin for press freedom.
1:17 PM
----------------------------------------------------
I also posted some comments on Rocky's Post one day earlier, called
Tuesday, October 31, 2006
BRENDAN MEETS ALBOM
http://rockybru.blogspot.com/2006/10/brendan-meets-albom.html
Half Blind said...
Plagiarism is to call someone else's work your own. Eg. I stole the research of Dr Lim Teck Ghee/ASLI on Bumi equity %, but I call it my own research. THAT'S PLAGIARISM.
But to copy or imitate someone else's style is NOT plagarism. If that were plagiarism, then ALL writers of literature today are, because many have copied or imitated the style and expressions of, or otherwise been heavily influenced by, the great literary giants like Dickens, Austen, Twain, Woolf, Faulkner, Hemingway...
I thought literary masters are recognised on the basis of the writers they have managed to INFLUENCE??
Your (and Screenshot's) definition of Plagiarism could well destroy the literary culture as a whole. Watch out - don't let your personal vengence cloud your mind.
11:24 AM
Half Blind said...
Some have argued that it's not plagiarism as such to 'mimick' or copy other writers' style so long as credit is given. That's nonsense.
If that was the rule, every sentence/paragraph written would have to be followed by "ala Dickens (in Bleak House, page 54, Penguin 1985 edition); Austen (in Pride and Prejudice, page 24, Penguin 1998 edition 2005 reprint); Woolf (To the Lighthouse, page 22...); Faulkner (The Sound and the Fury, page 69...); Hemingway (Old Man and the Sea, page 116...)
That's absurd, can't you guys see?
When they say that 'ideas' need to be acknowledged and credited, they mean SPECIFIC AND PARTICULAR theories and data/research such as Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Giving credit or acknowledgement to literary STYLES is NOT the same - you have the literary critics to do that, who analyse works of fiction and evaluate whether certain styles have been 'well applied/borrowed'.
In the literary world, it's VERY common to borrow the styles of other writers (without giving a lost list of 'source') - they do it ALL THE TIME!!
So, please don't spill your ink without familiarising yourself with what is meant by 'plagiarism' in the first place.
To talk so loud without actually knowing what you are talking about is only to make a fool out of yourself and showing just how shallow the intellectual standard of Malaysian journalists are.
Loud, Empty Can - that applies to both Rocky (I'm sorry, bro) and Screenshot's Jeff Ooi (who has a nasty habit of CENSORING views which are critical of HIM PERSONALLY). Wise up, for the sake of your readers' maturity and for Malaysia's sake.
And to all of the commentators on this blog and Jeff Ooi's, who can't wait to follow the crowd to condemn 'plagiarism', see what the crowd mentality has done to you? Grow up.
p.s: Feel free to mock and ridicule the NST clowns/spin-doctors, because I'm no fan of them either. They have a very long way to go before they deserve to call themselves 'journalists'. But plagiariser? NAH.
12:07 PM
Half Blind said...
Typo. I mean, "(without giving a LONG list of 'source')"
12:10 PM
----------------------------------------------------------
Then, Rocky couldn't take it anymore.
rockybru said...
Dear Half Blind,
I have decided against posting the three latest comments you left for this blog because they provide no new perspective compared with the three that you had sent earlier, which I have already published.
From all six comments that you sent me, you have made it very clear that, no matter what and how, you do not - will not - consider Brendan P's act as plagiarism.
And since you have made this very clear, I see no need to allow you to come out in defence of your position (and Brendan P's sin) each time a poster responds to your comments and tries to make you understand why Brendan did commit plagiarism.
If I allow you to do that, there'll be no end to it.
I hope you will not accuse me of censoring you, like the NST censored the Datin Anonymous, but I do need to maintain a certain minimum standard for this blog.
Thank you for taking part.
8:01 PM
-----------------------------------------------
Questions:
When they say "Don't Plagiarise someone else's words or ideas (journalists can use the words with attribution.)", what does it mean?
Let me put my ideas in a few questions, whcih are not mutually exclusive of each other.
1, Does 'Plagiarise' punish someone for imitating, copying and mimicking of a LITERARY STYLE without giving credit to the 'source' of that style (especially those who do it out of admiration for that style)?
2, In other words, does a writer have to make clear to people where he got the style for every part of his writing?
3, Does the phrase 'words or ideas' above include LITERARY STYLES?
DISCLAIMER: I have ABSOLUTELY NO intention of defending the clowns of NST, but only doing this because I think Rocky's Bru and Screeshots have misled their readers in the meaning of 'Plagiarism'.
If our conclusion is that the NST article is really guilty of 'plagiarism' (not as these 2 blogs understood it, but how the meaning is generally understood by the rest of the world), so be it. At least, we would have had a deeper understanding of the concept. Thanks.
GUARANTEE: NO CENSORSHIP, even of junk or spam. Thanks.
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